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Shanahan vs Gruden
November 19, 2010
12:53 PM
luke1867
Guest

I listened to the show this Morning and I caught the part where there was an ensuing debate as to who was the better coach – Gruden or Shanahan? I was so pumped about this debate myself that i wanted to chime in but my attempts to call the radio show where futile because the lines were busy each time. But anyways, here is my opinion on the matter.

Shanahan was known to be a great offensive coordinator in his time in Denver. He was called an offensive genius. Well, true or not, I did notice one thing about his playcalling style in Denver – he was a real aggressive play caller. Compare that to here in Washington, there is no semblance of the guy who everyone in the NFL knew in Denver. Why is that? I've heard some people say that it's because there is no personel/talent on the team. Well, Shanahan had his opportunity to bring in personnel and he brought in geriatrics like Joe Galloway, Larry Johnson, Willie Parker, and the list goes on. With a great need for WR help, he let go Devin Thomas and never put him on the field. So In my opinion, while the Redskins could use some help in terms acquiring more talent, that is not the difference in success between Shanahan in Denver and 10 million dollar Shanahan in Washington. The real difference is the fact that Shanahan is no longer really asserting his craft in the game. That is to say, he is not offensive coordinator. I dont see the aggressive play calling, the craftiness, etc. He might also be a little sentimental towards Kyle because the 3 runing plays for 3 and outs when the Redskins were down 21 pts in the 1st quarter and need a pass or a big play urgently did not resemble a Mike Shanahan move.  

That being said, I think Gruden is the better coach. Gruden went to the super bowl with two different teams – the Raiders, and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. He won one with the latter. One of the Junkies mentioned that Gruden only went to the playoffs 3 out of the 7 times he was there. I think that's decent if you ask me considering many coaches don't go to the playoffs that frequently. However, that's besides the point. Gruden's Tampa Bay team had the potential to make the playoffs each of the other years but they were severely hindered by injuries. Multiple times, Tampa wouldl start 5-2 in the season only to finish 9-7 or 8-8 or worse because they would end up with no Cardillac Williams and a 3rd or 4th string QB. We saw Phil Simms, Jeff Garcia, Bruce Gradkowski, and some other unknowns each rotate at QB because of injuries that would put them out for several weeks if not the entire season. Gruden had to finish some of those years with the 3rd or 4th string QB. With the Raiders, Gruden made the playoffs and the Super Bowl with a sub-par team. He has proven he can win everywhere he goes – something Shanahan has not proven and remains yet to be seen.

To conclude, Shanahan was a good offensive mind in Denver but Gruden has what Shanahan has in terms of offensive acumen and more. Gruden seems to come off more as a difference maker and a winner. Shanahan has won but does not exude that quality that he can go anywhere and win. He seems to have too much of an ego which gets in the way of his own success sometimes. 

November 19, 2010
10:08 PM
Nott Scorewood
Guest

I've never quite figured out whether it was Shanahan or ownership, but the real genius in those Devner teams was fundamentals.  They went out and got the biggest, corn-fed meatheads they could find for the O-line, and turned every RB who ran behind them into a star.  They would run them to death for 3 years or so, then trade them for some value.  It's cold, but true.  And it works. 

If it was, in fact, Shanny directing that, Danny Boy should let him do it again.  Fuck it, go buy an O-line and run the shit out of the ball.  The line can make a semi-good RB look great, and a mediocre QB look good. And it's a system that can endure.

I realize I've not been directly responsive so far.  I agree with your premise, that Gruden is the better overall coach – in that he can coax talent out of players they themselves might not know they had.  However, the Shanny system (as defined by me in my sole, absolute, and admittedly ignorant discretion) does work, if allowed to.  The team can right itself under Shanny, I believe.

End of useless diatribe.  Please disregard at your option.

November 19, 2010
10:46 PM
Felton B Nubbinswort
Guest

luke1867 said:

I listened to the show this Morning and I caught the part where there was an ensuing debate as to who was the better coach – Gruden or Shanahan? I was so pumped about this debate myself that i wanted to chime in but my attempts to call the radio show where futile because the lines were busy each time. But anyways, here is my opinion on the matter.

Shanahan was known to be a great offensive coordinator in his time in Denver. He was called an offensive genius. Well, true or not, I did notice one thing about his playcalling style in Denver – he was a real aggressive play caller. Compare that to here in Washington, there is no semblance of the guy who everyone in the NFL knew in Denver. Why is that? I've heard some people say that it's because there is no personel/talent on the team. Well, Shanahan had his opportunity to bring in personnel and he brought in geriatrics like Joe Galloway, Larry Johnson, Willie Parker, and the list goes on. With a great need for WR help, he let go Devin Thomas and never put him on the field. So In my opinion, while the Redskins could use some help in terms acquiring more talent, that is not the difference in success between Shanahan in Denver and 10 million dollar Shanahan in Washington. The real difference is the fact that Shanahan is no longer really asserting his craft in the game. That is to say, he is not offensive coordinator. I dont see the aggressive play calling, the craftiness, etc. He might also be a little sentimental towards Kyle because the 3 runing plays for 3 and outs when the Redskins were down 21 pts in the 1st quarter and need a pass or a big play urgently did not resemble a Mike Shanahan move.  

That being said, I think Gruden is the better coach. Gruden went to the super bowl with two different teams – the Raiders, and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. He won one with the latter. One of the Junkies mentioned that Gruden only went to the playoffs 3 out of the 7 times he was there. I think that's decent if you ask me considering many coaches don't go to the playoffs that frequently. However, that's besides the point. Gruden's Tampa Bay team had the potential to make the playoffs each of the other years but they were severely hindered by injuries. Multiple times, Tampa wouldl start 5-2 in the season only to finish 9-7 or 8-8 or worse because they would end up with no Cardillac Williams and a 3rd or 4th string QB. We saw Phil Simms, Jeff Garcia, Bruce Gradkowski, and some other unknowns each rotate at QB because of injuries that would put them out for several weeks if not the entire season. Gruden had to finish some of those years with the 3rd or 4th string QB. With the Raiders, Gruden made the playoffs and the Super Bowl with a sub-par team. He has proven he can win everywhere he goes – something Shanahan has not proven and remains yet to be seen.

To conclude, Shanahan was a good offensive mind in Denver but Gruden has what Shanahan has in terms of offensive acumen and more. Gruden seems to come off more as a difference maker and a winner. Shanahan has won but does not exude that quality that he can go anywhere and win. He seems to have too much of an ego which gets in the way of his own success sometimes. 


Excellent points….but Gruden's been to ONE super bowl.  The year after he left Oakland.  (Sorry….I'm a stat geek)

November 19, 2010
10:47 PM
Timber
Guest

They went out and got the biggest, corn-fed meatheads they could find for the O-line,

That's the thing though, they didn't. In Shanahan's time there they always had the lightest if not one of the lightest lines in the NFL. It's all about scheme, technique and athleticism with Shanahan.

As far as Gruden vs Shanahan I'm going to have to go with Shanahan. Yes Gruden won a SB with Tampa but it was Dungy's defense that carried them. Yes Gruden got them over the hump but he took what Dungy built and quickly destroyed it after that one year. Shanahan while he hasn't been great his teams have always been consistant and the players haven't seemed to grow tired of spiel like they always seem to with Gruden.

Plus Gruden tried to straight kill Chris Sims so he loses points for that.

November 20, 2010
10:51 AM
bassman23
Guest

Gruden has already coached 2 teams so it's easier to say he was able to make 2 teams winners.  Shanahan has just started on his 2nd team so it's a bit early to judge Shanahan on his 2nd tour of duty.

I believe Shanahan brought in all of the old guys because, while he wanted to compete this season, he's really looking to the next couple of years.  I equate it to baseball; bring in a stop gap journeyman or utility player to start for a year or 2 while your stud minor leaguer is getting the hang of things.  Obviously, the NFL is a little different with regards to minor leagues but with the draft and free agents Shanahan is going to bring in better fits this offseason and next but he still needed bodies to fill positions.  In fact, a few of the Junks have brought up the fact that he needs to gut the team, a la Pete Carroll..well how soon the Junks forget…Shanahan did cut 10+ players.  Not 25, but if they cuts 25 then you would have had an even worse team.  I think the approach they took this past offseason was good and we will have to wait to see what they do this offseason before we know really what they are looking to do (build up the offense and leave a bend but don't break D, fix a few key positions on both sides of the ball, fix the D line and O line).

I think it is just too early to say Shanahan is a failure or Gruden is, would have been, a better fit.

November 20, 2010
11:17 AM
IamMcNubbin
Guest

Gruden

November 21, 2010
9:54 AM
brookzy
Guest

bassman23 said:

Gruden has already coached 2 teams so it's easier to say he was able to make 2 teams winners.  Shanahan has just started on his 2nd team so it's a bit early to judge Shanahan on his 2nd tour of duty.

I believe Shanahan brought in all of the old guys because, while he wanted to compete this season, he's really looking to the next couple of years.  I equate it to baseball; bring in a stop gap journeyman or utility player to start for a year or 2 while your stud minor leaguer is getting the hang of things.  Obviously, the NFL is a little different with regards to minor leagues but with the draft and free agents Shanahan is going to bring in better fits this offseason and next but he still needed bodies to fill positions.  In fact, a few of the Junks have brought up the fact that he needs to gut the team, a la Pete Carroll..well how soon the Junks forget…Shanahan did cut 10+ players.  Not 25, but if they cuts 25 then you would have had an even worse team.  I think the approach they took this past offseason was good and we will have to wait to see what they do this offseason before we know really what they are looking to do (build up the offense and leave a bend but don't break D, fix a few key positions on both sides of the ball, fix the D line and O line).

I think it is just too early to say Shanahan is a failure or Gruden is, would have been, a better fit.


Did you forget that Shanahan coached the Raiders?
He's on his 3rd team!!

November 21, 2010
10:53 AM
Timber
Guest

Coaching under Al Davis gets anybody a pass. DOn't know how Gruden did it but he gets major props. Even then he couldn't wait to get out of there.

November 22, 2010
7:44 PM
bassman23
Guest

Brookzy, I definitely did forget.  I mean it was 20 yrs ago and he coached 20 games.

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